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Marchant: Players haven’t tuned out Carlyle
November 17th, 2009, 5:00 am · 26 Comments · posted by Eric Stephens, Staff writer
PITTSBURGH — The general manager’s patience has about reached its end. The exasperated coach is about to take some drastic measures. And the besiged players appear to be a collection of individuals that hardly resemble a team.
Such is the state of the Ducks after a 5-2 loss in Pittsburgh that capped a winless four-game road trip in which they scratched out one measly point and have settled into the bottom floor of the Western Conference.
Speculation of Randy Carlyle’s job status is beginning to percolate but Ducks general manager Bob Murray last week quashed any notion that he plans to fire the franchise’s all-time winningest coach.
Center Todd Marchant said that despite a stretch that’s seen them lose 10 of their last 13 games, the players haven’t tuned out Carlyle. When asked if the group is still listening to him, Marchant said, “Oh yeah. Absolutely.”
“I’ve been in situations like this before and that seems to be a common question,” Marchant added. ”Are people not listening to the coach? I don’t see that at all. I’ve never seen that at all. I’ve never seen where players don’t listen to the coach.
“For whatever reason, things just don’t work out the way you want them to. They don’t work out the way you draw them up.”
Carlyle visibly expressed his frustration following the loss to the Penguins. Marchant said the coach’s reaction is understandable.
“He’s as frustrated as anybody,” he said. ”The difference is we can go out and do something about it and he can’t. Coaching staffs can only do so much. They can only give you so much information. They can only diagram things so many times.
“It’s the players that ultimately have to go out and perform. That’s our job. Bottom line, you’ve got to go out and perform.”
The Ducks conducted one-on-one meetings Sunday, something that Carlyle does with each player about three or four times a year.
“I can guarantee you, every player going into it doesn’t want to be in that room for any longer than the 10 or 15 minutes that’s slotted,” Carlyle said Monday morning. “But when they leave it, they usually feel better about themselves. They usually feel better that they were able to say what they wanted to say. It clears the air. It gives me the opportunity to tell them how I actually feel without bringing them in the office or scolding them.
“It’s just a general thing of where I think they’re at and I try to get their feedback on where they think they’re at and where the team is at. I think it’s very productive.”
There was no immediate impact as the first few minutes of their loss to the reigning Stanley Cup champions was full of everything that has plagued the Ducks — turnovers in their own end, undisciplined play, bad penalties and ineffective penalty killing. It led to Carlyle concluding that he may have to get back to a more dictatorial approach.
Scott Niedermayer said the players have met on their own as well.
“We’ve done all of the above,” Niedermayer said. ”All of the above has happened and maybe it needs to continue to happen. Our job is to keep trying to make it work. So we’ll continue to try to do those things. We have done it and we’ll continue to talk about it.”
Marchant conceded that the Ducks don’t seem to be working as a unit, at least on the ice.
“If we were on the same page, we’d be doing better than we are,” he said. ”It just seems like we get maybe three guys at a time on the same page, maybe four. When you get five guys on the same page, it’s amazing what can happen.
You either have a really good shift or you score a goal or whatever. It happens.
“Hey, we’re not the only team that’s been through a situation like this. And I’m sure that everybody in this dressing room at some time in their career, at whatever level it’s been, has been in a situation like this.”
But the 15-year veteran tried to offer some hope as he sat on a bench in the gloomy dressing room.
“I’ve been on teams like this before,” Marchant said. ”It’s never easy. It almost seems like there’s never any light at the end of the tunnel. But there is. You look at the schedule. We’re 19 games in. There is time. There’s time to turn this around. We have the people, we have the personnel, we have the talent. We’ve got the work ethic. We’ve got the character in this room to do it. It’s just a question of everyone doing it.
“Like Randy said, we’re regressing. We’re taking two steps backward but we haven’t been able to get that one step, two steps, three step forward and kind of move in the right direction. We’ve got to start with one step. Start with a solid game Thursday night and move forward.”
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Now could this be a sign of a MAJOR change?
Marchant is right, they need to start with a single good game….thy almost had when they saw the Pens at home last, but since then have not played well at all…they look gassed after the first three changes..mostly mentally gassed….they need a game where they relax, skate hard, and have fun…like a keep away drill, sounds stupid but even at this level, the stress of performing can be diffused by little things, we’ve all sen it in other sports as well…..good luck ducks, I will be there yelling on thursday..
Here’s the thing. Do you stay with this group and maybe find some help?
Or do you turn the over 30 somethings, Niedermayer, Selanne, Giguere, Marchant & Koivu into some up and coming 20 somethings & picks and complete the rebuild that began last season?
Wait and our Ducks risk rebuilding anyway without getting anything back for our vets.
Continuing the rebuild also means bringing in a new coach.
I agree Todd Marchant is calling it right. The guys haven’t tuned out Coach Carlyle. IMO it’s a passive/aggressive response to the system and coaching style.
While Scot Niedermayer wears the ‘C’ he’s not this team’s leader. For better or worse the leader is Ryan Getzlaf. That’s part of the problem. make no mistake, Getzlaf wants to win as badly as anyone but it has conditions.
Getzlaf sees himself as a playmaker and he’s willing to grind and muck. He doesn’t see himself as a complete hockey player yet. Say like Mike Richards in Philadelphia. Instead, Getzlaf sees himself as Joe Thornton with an edge.
Ryan Getzlaf has the ability to be the most dominate player in the world. His problem is trying to win with less than a complete game and effort. “I’m not the shooter, I’m the setup guy.” How ’bout, “I’m a hockey player willing and very able to do whatever it takes to win. For I am Spartacus.”
Getzy was asked recently why he doesn’t shoot more. He said, “Why should I when I’ve got two great snipers on my wings.” Gordie Howe answered that question better than anybody. Blinky said, “If I have an equal or better scoring chance I shoot. If not I pass.”
If Getzlaf is going to drop the gloves, take bad penalties, commit laughable giveaways, glide around the rink instead moving the feet and skating around the rink he belongs on the 4th line.
Rick Tocchett demoted the 8 million dollar man, Vincent Lecavalier to the 4th line for a couple games. It worked. Vinny is back and on fire.
Does Coach Carlyle have Tocchett’s kind of guts? If he does, he’s sure kept it well hidden.
I agree with backcheck… Getzlaf need to take it up another level and use his size and skills to drive to the net, shoot and create more opportunities. Often when he receives a pass he slows down and tries to force the pass. Why not keep moving and create some open ice?
On another note Giguere is looking very slow. Although the team’s poor performance is not his fault, I’m losing confidence in his ability to steal a game for us.
Sorry but I call BS on Marchant. There is no effort, passion or discipline. They have tuned the coach out and it is pretty obvious. Caryle has been here for a while and maybe his style has worn thin on some guys.
Something needs to be done or this season will be over by Christmans. The good part is that if the team keeps losing, I will be able to buy a cheap ticket and move down to the lower level for the game becuase there will be no one there. SoCal sports fans are fickle and wont show up any longer if the team continues to suck.
Seriously, what is Marchant going to say? That they aren’t listening to Carlyle? Right. Demote and bench the top players. Now.
I am going to stick with the boys no matter what. Just think when they guys start winning, how awesome it will be.
They just need to get a win and build on that.
It has been very rough as a die hard Duck fan to watch, but I can not give up on this team. I will be there thursday night, at the glass during warm-ups and routing the guys on from my seat on the terrace level.
Come on fans, they are going through a rough patch, we can not give up on them.
COME ON DUCK FANS…PLEASE COME OUT ON THURSDAY AND SUPPORT OUR TEAM.
The article has BS all around. The team needs a shake up, even if it is moving Getzlaf to the fourth line. Its thinking like that, that is badly needed on this team.
No worries Lynne, bad or good a lot of fans will still come out. We won’t see a Phoenix situation with the fans here for a while…. meaning that if things don’t change, we might one day.
The fans are already staring to go away. THIS IS SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA!!!!!!!!!!!!
I was at the Vancouver game a while back and the posted attendance was in the 15,000’s. I was there and the place was empty. You can’t tell me the fans will still be there at the end of the season when the team is out of the playoffs by December? They will be lucky to get 8,000 at a game.
People bought their seats so the team posts good numbers despite empty seats around. Yes the Cunucks game was a bit empty on Fri Oct 30th. But we saw the same thing on Halloween the year before when Canucks were here (was a hell of a game).
I doubt 8,000 in the stands this season. But I’ll give you this. We could see those low numbers if the team doesnt turn things around when people start thinking of renewing their season seats in the spring.
Times are tough, Ducks need to market a team with success if we are going to pay good money those seats. Reality check time Bob Murray.
I think we’re simply seeing what happens whe you take the “D” out of Ducks. Uck. Uck Uck
I was at the game last night in Pittsburgh, and I think one way to shake this team up is to put Mike Brown on the top line for a few shifts, if not more. As the game was winding down I started paying attention to him every time he stepped on the ice and he gave his all, all shift, every shift, even when the rest of the team didn’t. I’d love to see him rewarded for his effort and hard work. The rest of the team can learn a lesson from watching him. He may not have the skills, but he has the heart, which is what this team seems to be lacking.
Why blame Randy Carlisle? Bob Murray traded Pronger and didn’t re-sign Beauchemin. He re-tooled the defense. the blame lies with him.
Wisniewski was a good signing, we need more guys like him. He is fast , hits hard and is defensively responsible. Whitney is a bust. He is slow, seldom shoots, doesn’t clear guys from in front of the net and doesn’t stand guys up at the blueline. Steve Eminger is almost invisible. No offense, he can’t knock people down. Nick Boynton is decent and has the best plus/minus +4 for a reasonable priced salary. Steve McCarthy is already gone. We need two sold defensemen to replace Whitney and Eminger. Whitney costs us Kunitz and a top scoring prospect.
The blames lies with BOB MURRAY.
Well said Bilverado - Our D puts the S in Uck - cause we SUCK! - I love this team - but the talent is not there - O’Donnell, Beachemin and Pronger along with Niedermayer played 50 of the 60 minutes a game and were dominant - the other 10 minutes were played against other teams talentless 4th lines by a not too shabby Huskins and DiPenta.
An older Niedermayer, Whitney, Wisnieski and Eminger are not talented enough to shut other teams down for 50 out of 60 minutes a game. This team does not have the talent to win. By having a weak D-Core, everything else falls apart - the Goalies lose faith, and the Offense tries to do too much - forcing turnovers.
This team needs a D-Core to build around - a win for the Ducks is not going to turn this around and turn magically into more wins. We need a new D-group or this current group to magically all have career years at the same time starting from game 20 on.
I agree that the talent on this team is just not there. Now they are not last place in the Western Conference un-talented, so they are underperforming a bit right now. But make no mistake, this team has the talent of a fringe playoff team (in the west).
Eddie you hit the nail on the head as far as the defenseman go, just not nearly as talented as it has been over the last 3 years or so. On top of that the Ducks only have 1 legit scoring line (Perry-Getz-Ryan) and then two over the hill vets (Selanne and Koivu) with the perpetually underachieving forward in his prime (Lupul). The checking line has also suffered with Niedermeyer gone.
In the end I think this team will make the playoffs as a 7 or 8 seed, but if they don’t start improving soon you’d have to consider trading anyone not named Perry, Ryan or Getzlaf.
“Speculation of Randy Carlyle’s job status is beginning to percolate but Ducks general manager Bob Murray last week quashed any notion that he plans to fire the franchise’s all-time winningest coach.
Center Todd Marchant said that despite a stretch that’s seen them lose 10 of their last 13 games, the players haven’t tuned out Carlyle. When asked if the group is still listening to him, Marchant said, “Oh yeah. Absolutely.””….QUOTE
Maybe it’s not that the players have tuned out the coach….maybe it’s middle management that isn’t listening to the players. Like a typical middle level office drone Murray states a threat about many players will go through the turnstile on the way out before this coach does….and expects THAT to have a positive influence??? After spending his entire tenure here as a “tough” coach known for dicipline, hard practices….and an iron fist atmosphere, Carlyle actually believes veteren players would subject themselves to more? These aren’t kids learning the game. And furthermore, people pay their hard earned money to see the PLAYERS, not the coach….and yet like a dictator run amok on a film set Murray (the producer) backs his director ( Carlyle), regardless if the film suffers, because he’s pissing off the actors (players).They are playing to get rid of him….one way or another. It’s win/win for the vets. Carlyle goes….or they go, traded to a contending team.
We need to move on. I’m tired of Pronger, Beach and all the other D-man that are no longer on the team, keep being mentioned on here. Yes, they were great when they played for us and made a huge difference, but they are not here any more. Let us move on.
Also, its our “overall” defense that has been letting us down and not all of the defensemen. Getzlaf (who isn’t a defenseman) is one example on our “overall” defense making too many mistakes. Boynton and Mikkelson might not be a Chris Pronger quality defenseman, but I think both have been pretty good.
Well here’s another take on what Todd had to say. Stuff goes on in the locker room - our speculation(s) are nothing more than that.
What I am sure of is that every member of this organization has to be feeling the pressure. Can they turn things around with the group they have - maybe. Marchant said not everyone is playing their part in the game that the coach is using. Carlyle is the boss - like it or not - play it his way and play it as hard as you can.
Carlyle hasn’t said much to the media and I prefer that. But, from this article and what Murray said last week sounds like some players will be moved. If that’s what is needed - let’s hope it happens soon.
I respect that Todd spoke about the problem without going too far. I don’t believe anyone is going to tell us more than we’ve already heard until or unless they have an announcement for the media.
“…….Carlyle hasn’t said much to the media and I prefer that. But, from this article and what Murray said last week sounds like some players will be moved. If that’s what is needed - let’s hope it happens soon.”……QUOTE
I’d rather have Carlyle than Bobby Ryan….or Corey Perry. Hell, if could get rid of every player that doesn’t want our coach around, all will be well…..even if we have to trade the whole team. The sooner the better. You know, come to think of it…..think of what we could get if we traded Getzlaf. And that Koivu kid…..who the hell has ever heard of him? Throw him through the turnstile Murray. But whatever you do…..KEEP CARLYLE.
Something I didn’t say in my last post.
I used to be a fan of football and switched to hockey when the Ducks became a franchise. I had been moving away from football anyway because the celebrations after a touch down were becoming offensive to me. There were too few players like Jerry Rice. More than that many of the players seemed to be people of poor character when they were off the field.
What I appreciate about most hockey players - obviously Sean Avery types are not included - is that they are gentlemen off the ice. I respect that and when someone - like Marchant - speaks to the media it is done as that - he isn’t going to “dish the dirt”.
The “business” in the room - needs to stay there - No matter how much we’d all like to know why things are not working.
I am also calling BS on this one. Something stinks in the locker room and something needs to be done. Since we are stuck with Jigs and his huge salary- I say let him have the #1, let Timo be the backup. Trade Hills for some quality D. Dump Eminger, Boynton, and get some kids in there to go to school with Wiz and Nieds. If we are going to make this an off year- we should let some young talent hang with these vets who are moving on.
Not to irritate you, Stephen, but I have to mention Pronger’s name one more time: Chris has four goals, 13 assists, +13. Our whole defense has only 2 goals. I bring it up just to show how bright our GM is.
I heard a lot about the last year mutiny against Carlyle, and I don’t think they have more reasons to love him today.
What Marchant said was to be expected. It doesn’t mean that we have a happy group of players.
I loved having Pronger on our team and miss his presence. Philadelphia isn’t going to give him back any time soon, so the best we can do now is to move on and see what we can do with the current players on this team, minor league system or available by trade.
No article would be complete without “Move forward.” Thanks, Todd, that was a close one.
Paul, If you thought I think moving the people you mentioned would be the right move, you are wrong. If you thought I think keeping the coach at any cost is the right thing to do - wrong again.
It’s easy to say dump the coach but as has been noted in other postings that might not be a realistic option.
Where Anahiem is going wrong:
1. Tell Getzlaf as much as I like him, “Cute passes that don’t connect on PP are stupid and waiste the time on the clock. Stop being fancy and create a real presence in front of the net. Perry is doing that exact thing and it’s working.
2. Polite conversation is not working. Get back to the basics work them hard on the ice Randy and stop tweaking every thing under the sun. Ducks need consistency and the constant tweaking makes the players have to adapt more often.
3. Get rid of Whitney. He’s standing in front of the net on D so often with flat feet I don’t know what he is doing. He never seems to be covering his zone or man. The only thing he is good on is skating up the puck and passing up but once the puck enters the ducks zone. Lame duck.
4. Let Giggy have priority over Hiller. Hiller has less experience and Giggy is a quality player that will bring more confidence to a struggling team. Giggy has proven he has what it takes in drastic times aside from his current stuggles. If you treat him like a second string player he will act that way. He is much better than that. Let’s put the past behind us.
5. Trade sucky players. Let go of Whitney and get a more two way defensive guy in. GM needs to take a hard look and really shuffle up the mix. It’s just not jelling the way it is.